All right, today we are getting stuck in with a wonderful topic on whether or not you should move someone on from your team. Now, this is not an easy topic is it? It's been quite topical lately, especially with the talent crunch, you know, we're short staffed everyone short staffed, the talent just isn't in the market, people are not putting up with nonsense. Replacing people is incredibly difficult. And that shouldn't be the default consideration. We would never advocate for that. I definitely wouldn't. But it's a consideration, right? If you have people on your team, and you're going to move one on, potentially, you might not be able to fill that role for months or weeks, or whatever it is. So factoring that is, is a critical consideration. It really is. But let's park that bit for now, as we come to the broader issue in the question for today, which is, should I move a person on from my team? It's an interesting one, right? Because I've heard a lot lately, leader saying things like, oh, you know, that person's just not very good at their job, or that person really doesn't get the values here? Or hey, you know, I'm I just don't think they can get there. So I'm going to flip this question on its head, because I think the precursor to this question is far more important than this question itself. And the precursor to this question that I always lead into with coaching is, what have you done to test whether this person should stay on the team? And they'll go, Well, I've given them lots of chances. Or you might think, well, they've been here long enough? Well, that's not really a test. That's just kind of saying they should have figured it out by now. And I'm really bullish on this idea of being anti well, they should have figured it out by now. So today, when we unpick this question, I'm going to give you the criteria that I look at not all of them, because that's a very long conversation. But what are some of the criteria you need to get stuck into so you can go sh1t, they're really not clued in and ready or? All right, it's time let's do it, get the rip the band aid off and get them out of here. Now, how do you know you've put in the effort? How do you know you've tested it correctly? And how do you know you've set them up for success? So there's a really good analogy that's used in kind of strategic execution around a bus. And I think it's still a really salient one, it works well, that kind of gives you a mental image of it. And that is, if you're heading somewhere as a team, or an organization or a group of project, people working on something as what's the bus first we ask? So what's the butler? What's this thing look like in terms of composition? Really? And then where's it going? Right, so where are we going with this bus? Then once we know that, what that goal is eg Where are we going? We can go? Well, what are the seats on the bus? And the seats are really well? What are the jobs to be done? And who sits in each of those jobs? And then we get to wall? Who is the person sat in that seat? What are the attributes of them? What skills do they have? How do they get those jobs done? So if you think about that, what's the direction? What are the people we need on the team? And what are the skills and attributes and behaviors of those team members? Think about that hold that in your mind as we work through the rest of the topic today. And it's really a good analogy to carry forward. Because there's so many times when people are talking about strategy, and we're doing strategic planning with clients. I go, Well, what are the seats we're talking about here? And they can't answer that question or go, well, what's the skill of the person sat in that seat? Oh, I haven't really, you know, it's not clear. So that's where I take you to today's topic, if you've defined the direction the bus is going in, right? So we know where we're trying to go and achieve. We've defined the seat. So we know there's some jobs to be done. But we haven't defined the skills, the attributes, what good looks like how they're contributing with other members, aka other seats on the bus. Well, how can you even hope to answer the question of well, should I move them on? And you'd be shocked at how often when I say things like, tell me about how you're feeling about the staff member? Let's do that today. Picture the staff member you have in your mind or someone on your team. In past when you've had to do this and you go, I'm not really sure if they're a good fit, I kind of want to move them on. Picture that person in your head. Now want you to answer the following things for me. One, what's the seat that I've put them in? What are the attributes of that seat? What are the objectives? What are the KPIs it needs to achieve? What's the plan? What really clearly what is the job of that seat to achieve? Can you define that? Can you explain that to me? If you can't, well, how the h3ll can they? And you'd be shocked at the number of people who say Oh, well, you know, it kind of looks a bit like this and wall changes from week to week and I go, Okay, first x Majan that big red X on this first exercise well, how the h3ll can they achieve a goal and be a good fit for this team? If you don't even know what that looks like, strike, right strike walk. Then next I go okay, okay, okay, let's park that for now I want you to go and do some homework, figure that out. And today if you can't answer that question, you need to go away and figure that out. That's the first piece of advice. Second is, maybe you can define that seat, or you've committed to going away and defining it will say, Well, what is good look like in that seat? You know, what are the attributes? How does the person behave? How do they engage with other people? What are some of the things they're doing really well? How are they passing information to you? You know, what a success get measured? Based on if you can't answer those questions, and that's Strike two. So for example, if I've got a clear thing I need to achieve on a second part or so kind of component of this role. And I've defined that this is the goal that needs to be achieved, but haven't defined their skills needed to achieve that and what their specific role and path is for that, well, then I haven't set them up for success. So now when I asked that question, in coaching, I say, Well, tell me about their skills like what are they able to kind of handle customers? While are they managing projects, like what's required to execute on this? Again, if that can't be answered, then there's that struck? So we need to get clear on this seat. Okay, what's the things it's achieving, and the person in the seat? What are their skills and behaviors and kind of measurements for them specifically? Now, once you've done those two, I then turn your attention to the third element here where you can either get a tick or a strike, which is give me some specific examples, scenarios, occurrences, memories, recollections, whatever they are measurements recently, of where they have performed or not performed against that seat, and the definition of those skills of the person in that seat. Like, oh, you know, they kind of did this. And I go, Well, how does? How does that fit into the role description in the things you've asked them to do? Have you been clear? Did they have a clear set of expectations? Do they know that you're measuring this? Do they know what you want to be reported back as a result of that? If you can't do any of those things? And how can you possibly expect the person to succeed? Imagine me saying to you, I've appointed you, as manager of this team, look at I don't really have the time or the clarity to say to you, what I'll be measuring you on, I haven't really checked, if you even know what that looks like, Please don't bother me too much with your questions. And a month or two from now I come and sit you down and go like, I don't really think you're performing very well. I'm concerned about your performance and fit with this team. Imagine that. And I see that quite often. So if you're doing those three things, you're not doing those three things, you either get ticks or crosses. And then what that allows us to do to answer the question of, should I move this person on from the team? Should they stay on this team or not? Is to go well, how have you managed the lack of performance? So if the person hasn't performed well? What feedback? Have you given them? Have you gone? Hey, you know, let's take a look at this. This is not good. Here's what good would look like, or, Hey, come talk to me about what happened here, I'd like to better understand your thinking when you did that thing. These are really important feedback mechanisms, you know, in your one on ones, and if you say you're not having one on ones, you and me are gonna have a conversation, but in your regular one on ones with the team member, are you giving them feedback? And are you giving them that feedback in between those one on ones? If not, again? Well? How? How can that possibly lead to behavioral change, if they're not aware? It's like people in relationships, they get to a break point. They don't say anything to their partners they get, it gets worse and worse and worse, and bottles, bottles bottles, and then there's this big event where they're like, I don't think this is working. You have decided that maybe we should part ways, you know, like, wait, what, like what's happened here? How did we get to this place happens with relationships with friendships, and with work, the leaders carry around an immense amount of stress, the role you are in as a leader is f*cking stressful. There's no denying that. But are you carrying around this bottled up feedback that you haven't handed out? Candidate to them? See how they respond? You'd be shocked at how many team members once you give them a bit of feedback. Oh, okay, fine. Yeah, I need to do better. Now, some will not. I'm not blind to that. And that my job here isn't to preach to you. My job here is to give you the tools and the thinking to be a f*cking amazing leader. And to do that, you have to give people feedback. Now for the ones that come back to that feedback and go, I don't agree, or I don't like it. I don't think there's a problem. Then that's where we start to get a different answer to that question of should I move them on? If you give them the feedback, they make the change, they're open to it or they're at least trying and they need some skills or some further coaching you rate, it's always easier to improve or retain a staff member than it is to recruit because recruiting is a gamble. And you might end up with someone worse than the current one or the person might not accept the offer. And then you're back to recruiting. And even the salary cost of that, you know, you're talking about 30 to 50%, in the stats of salary burned to recruit a replacement, just between the handover and the gaps and the recruitment costs. It just gets really, really expensive. So if you can turn around a mediocre or poor performing staff member, that's sure as sh1t a better option than going to market. Now, if they say, Nope, don't agree, not interested, don't want to play this game don't care. Great. Now, as the leader, I know this is crystal clear. So I work back through all that checklist. Yes, I've defined the seat. I've defined the roles and attributes of the person on the bus, I've been really explicit in those expectations. And I've even been giving them feedback to tick, tick, tick, tick tick across those four areas. And they say, Nope, not interested. Cool. Performance Management. Here we come. And you go, Oh, but I don't want to lose them. It's like, but do you really want someone on your team? Who says to you, either through their behaviors or explicitly, I don't want to change? Do you want that person on your team? H3ll no. Because that is going to have a toxic effect on you, and stress you out, it's going to have a toxic effect on your team, because they're gonna go Why the h3ll is the boss letting this person stick around. And that's going to have a brand and reputation damage to your team, your business and to the perception of those customers who experience it. You cannot allow someone toxic to stay on your team. And I often will say to people, and I've done this in my own business, I would rather have a vacancy and empty seat than to have someone toxic and destructive sitting in there doing the work but doing a poor job or damaging the brand or the team, you are much better off to have that vacancy in the short term than to have someone who causes massive damage for you both wellbeing wise and reputation wise. So that's the answer today to the question of, should I move a staff member on work through those four areas that we've covered? And that gives you a really good starting place? As always, we've answered one question today, and we will answer one question in tomorrow's episode as well. If you enjoy the podcast, please subscribe and share. It's always good to see more and more people listening every day as we publish content. But as you'll see, these are 15 Minutes or Less generally, and they give you one topic area to progress in take away back into the workplace. I've been your host, Travis Thomas, check us out on our website and I look forward to seeing you next time. Stay awesome.